were you listening to john allison? >> i was. i enjoyed john's comments very much. >> were you ramming mortgages down unsuspecting -- >> no, i heard that comment. that hurt a little bit. >> he wasn't talking about you, barry, but there were people who were making mortgages they weren't checking out. that people couldn't even verify they were employed at that point. >> clearly, they were not a 100% angelic group. the vast majority, we're good people, though. and you have to remember these programs out there, when you're talking about a 580 fico score, 100% loan to value and no income verification, it was a bad idea. but it wasn't the mortgage companies that came up with this, it was the credit agencies, and nobody points a finger at them. and that's the thing almost maddening to see that they kind of got away with it scot-free. >> aig guaranteeing they had the credit default stuff they didn't put any insurance. it was a house of cards. >> a nationwide delusion. >> and neel was right. describe it that way, almost a global delusion,